Absolute Poker Rigged?
Rumours have been flying around the internet for the past few days that Absolute Poker might have a security breach. Some absolute players have made claims that there is some kind of “Super-User” account out that gives some people the ability to see other players’ hands.
Players noticed some strange activity on some of the higher stakes games where players would call down to the river with almost no chance of actually winning the hand (see how POTRIPPER calls an all-in move with only a 10 high):
Stage #896976330 Tourney ID 1883389 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $4500 - 2007-09-13 01:43:49 (ET)
Table: 14 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - POTRIPPER ($765740 in chips)
Seat 8 - CRAZYMARCO ($214260 in chips)
POTRIPPER - Ante $450
CRAZYMARCO - Ante $450
POTRIPPER - Posts small blind $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Posts big blind $4500
*** POCKET CARDS ***
POTRIPPER - Calls $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
*** FLOP *** [4h Kd Kh]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $9000
CRAZYMARCO - Calls $9000
*** TURN *** [4h Kd Kh] [7s]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $13500
CRAZYMARCO - All-In(Raise) $200310 to $200310
POTRIPPER - Calls $186810
*** RIVER *** [4h Kd Kh 7s] [5s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
POTRIPPER - Shows [10c 9c] (One pair, kings)
CRAZYMARCO - Shows [9h 2h] (One pair, kings)
POTRIPPER Collects $428520 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($428520)
Board [4h Kd Kh 7s 5s]
Seat 3: POTRIPPER (dealer) (small blind) won Total ($428520) HI:($428520) with One pair, kings(ten kicker) [10c 9c - B:Kh,B:Kd,P:10c,P:9c,B:7s]
Seat 8: CRAZYMARCO (big blind) HI:lost with One pair, kings [9h 2h - B:Kh,B:Kd,P:9h,B:7s,B:5s]
To add to the mess, another thread started on another message board claiming that part owner of Absolute Poker, Mark Seif, was cheating in games. Here is what he posted:
“Play then started again……and I saw something that I never have before in all my on-line poker play: obvious manipulation. Every hand was a complete dissection based on whatever Mike was holding (third pair was capped by Seif if Mike was behind or bluffing, for example.) About 10 or 12 k was basically stolen in 15 minutes (over maybe 100 hands), and here’s the kicker: he was so pissed and beyond rational thinking that he actually wanted Mike to know what was going on! For example, Mike had K9 on one hand and flopped a boat. Seif was first to act after the flop, and FOLDED OUT OF TURN just that time. I had heard that Seif was having some personal problems, but who would’ve ever guessed that he could be capable of this. Between that possibility and the abuse that he’s taken from the pros (in chat, $ lost, and pride lost at the tables), he must’ve finally snapped and lowered himself THAT much to get some revenge. We were simply stunned, and all Mike could do at the time was leave the game and withdraw the rest of his money (which he did get already.)”
The Absolute Poker affiliate department has posted the following statement to affiliates of their site:
“Thank you for your patience in this urgent issue.
Let me start off by stating in 100% confidence that, fair play and security is of paramount importance to Absolute Poker. We have temporarily frozen accounts that have been brought to our attention while we perform an extensive investigation.
While we are continuing with our investigation, we have yet to find any evidence of wrong doing. Our game client only receives data regarding the individuals hand and no other players hole cards, except in the event of a showdown.
The player’s and their respective actions that are in question, all come from a small sample of Hands. We have researched their play exhaustively and have found no proof that they had any knowledge of other player’s hole cards.
There were hands that were played poorly — from a poker strategy perspective — and these players did receive a fortunate result.
So far we have no evidence that substantiates claims that any of the players were involved in chip dumping, or any other improper activity.
Because of the seriousness of these allegations, we have not closed the investigation and are continuing to look very closely into this matter.We will notify you if we obtain any new information regarding these claims.”
My Take on the issue:
I suspect that many of the claims posted by users to be more of a coincidence than an actual indication of wrong doing. Some of the plays posted could either be collusion (players working together) between players, chip dumping, staged (to create these allegations), or just bad poker playing. Unfortunately collusion happens at every poker site, and though sitesdo their best to stop it, they can’t catch everyone. Collusion also only give the players a slight edge but is not effective 100% of the time.
Absolute Poker is one of the biggest sites on the internet and there is no reason for them or Mark Seif to cheat people out of a few thousand dollars. These sites are constantly scuritinized and since they handle millions of dollars every day, have the highest security measures put in place.
Can I say for certain that it is not possible? Well, no, not really. I just think the risk for Absolute to do something like this strongly outweighs the rewards that the site or an individual (such as mark Seif) may benefit.
I have taken courses on security before (I have my CCNA) and think that it would be almost impossible for other players to intercept packets for other players without them having some knowledge. Any program that could possibly do this would have to penetrate Absolute Poker’s computer network (which I am sure is locked down like Fort Knox), and would be very noisy and detectable on their network.
To conclude, if you are worried about the chance that their may be something going on at Absolute, don’t play there. Try one of our Top 7 Poker Sites. I make no effort to promote Absolute Poker, as I have personally never thought much of their site. I have never played there personally, but many players do love that site because they have some great promotions, including their massive bad beat jackpot, it just isn’t one of my favorites. If you are worried about playing at online poker sites in general, sure, something could go wrong, but it is extremely unlikely. But, you have the same chances of something going wrong when you walk in the door of your favorite local casino, except you have the safety of your own home!
absolute poker
Mark McAndrew said
am October 26 2007 @ 10:31 pm
It wasn’t a few thousand. According to http://www.rawvegas.tv/watch.php?vID=c20a0208043f44a52629bfdc684f60
Mark Seif says they’ve refunded over a million already.
And (surprise, surprise) AP has ‘deleted’ the hand histories Seif promised would ‘clear his name’. Despite AP’s KGC license saying they have to keep them for 5 years (rule 245), AP apparently delete them after 6 months because of the cost and difficulty in buying another $100 hard drive.
Plenty of evidence Mr Seif is up to his neck in this - his egregious statements in trying to defend the potripper hands for a start (yup, he dared).
Absolute Poker and Mark Seif… you can still play with them ever again. I’ll pass.
Ash said
am December 18 2007 @ 6:11 pm
Ha ha, where are all the ‘experts’ who jump to defend online pokers credibility now???
Where are the know it alls that laugh at those who say online poker is rigged??
This was online poker, it was rigged. One of the biggest names in the industry running a rigged game.
weraf said
am September 11 2008 @ 10:49 am
People try to cheat. They cheat in real poker in real casinos. It’s easier to cheat online. Of course people are going to cheat.